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Post by Phantom Cipher on Oct 22, 2012 23:30:27 GMT -5
What I am going to talk about is a website too many people take for granted. I am talking a little bit about Youtube's impact on gaming and how it changed gaming forever and became the ultimate gamebreaker.
On one hand, you get access to almost every video game in existence and see it in action. You can watch the game from start to finish without ever touching the controller, watch all the cutscenes, look at all the moves, and spot bugs.
On the other hand, it truly killed the element of surprise, forced most people to play the game one way, exposed every secret, discourages experimentation, and can show you what they want you to see, when they want you to see it.
I felt that it effect game sales negatively than the other way around. It not like the 90's where you only got magazines, pictures, rare TV appearances, and rentals to make judgments on your purchases. At least you have a chance to buy something without influence and might like it in the long run.
These days, almost everyone can be a reviewer, some compiling about games they never put in their system, attempts to discourage others from trying the game out. It is a complete mess. With everything exposed, your experience would be soured by a huge margin.
Some companies live for the element of surprise, but with Youtube, that advantage is gone and they are forced to adapt to a copy and paste one size fits all scheme. You don't know just how tough it is to make an original game that the people have not saw or done before.
One of the problems with Youtube is that you don't play the game, you are watching somebody else play and if you based your experience on that video, you will have misguided conceptions about the product in general.
Watching other people play on youtube is one thing, but playing that same game is a completely different matter. You can hear about how good/bad the controls are, but if you don't play the game, touch the buttons, and deal with the system in the game, you will not have a clear understanding about the game in general.
It almost like watching a game show on TV and being in that game show in person as a contestant. At home, you feel very comfortable and know the layout of the game: it looks easy, but the moment you step foot into the game show, you will fell the pressure and will not think normally as you would at home.
Same concept to gaming. You watch the game, you think its easy and simple then when you played the game, you will understand better what the people who played the game talked about. Same thing applies to most sports and businesses, esp. martial arts.
With Youtube, one can fell like they know the game from the back of their hand, but scouting can only take you so far. Just ask any football fan who watches football to play a real game of football. You will see the difference, the rush, and the feel of football.
IMHO, Youtube truly do more harm than good and created a new kind of gamer: The Youtube gamer who goes by 2 types:
The one who watches the game but never plays them, attempting to encourages/discourage people from playing them, and the one who plays the game and watches the videos to mimic/counter any tactics that they see on the screen.
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Post by nPo Wolfpack noleafclover1980 on Oct 23, 2012 0:31:20 GMT -5
I don't see how it's any different than people using strategy guides, etc when they need help. I think people give too much of a damn about how other people play a game. Don't wanna be spoiled? Don't go on Youtube and look up game strategies. What does it matter if someone else does though? Because they aren't having fun the right way?
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Post by Invisible Dubya on Oct 25, 2012 0:09:14 GMT -5
I don't see how it's any different than people using strategy guides, etc when they need help. I think people give too much of a damn about how other people play a game. Don't wanna be spoiled? Don't go on Youtube and look up game strategies. What does it matter if someone else does though? Because they aren't having fun the right way? Yup. |
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Post by Luchaporn on Oct 25, 2012 0:16:14 GMT -5
I don't see how it's any different than people using strategy guides, etc when they need help. I think people give too much of a damn about how other people play a game. Don't wanna be spoiled? Don't go on Youtube and look up game strategies. What does it matter if someone else does though? Because they aren't having fun the right way? Seems like not a week goes by that I don't try and make this argument to someone about strategy guides, or youtube vids, or why I'm disappointed cheat codes have disappeared from the gaming landscape. |
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Post by realfakerazor on Oct 25, 2012 1:03:53 GMT -5
Cheat codes disappearing has nothing to do with Youtube and everything to do with DLC. They were monetized.
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Post by Luchaporn on Oct 25, 2012 1:56:51 GMT -5
Cheat codes disappearing has nothing to do with Youtube and everything to do with DLC. They were monetized. I'm aware of that, but it's the same argument. I complain about cheats being done away with and get accused of "not properly enjoying the game" the same way I do if I get stuck and decide to look online for help instead of wandering in frustration until I figure something out |
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Post by Phantom Cipher on Oct 25, 2012 23:17:38 GMT -5
Maybe you can tell someone to not watch Youtube, but who will listen? A lot of stuff falls on deaf ears and mainstream have cause gaming to become a mere shadow of its former self. Maybe I should just call Youtube a gamechanger alongside a gamebreaker because of the way it changes the whole gaming field into a overhyped game of "can you to this?"
I sorry, but if you use a strategy guide to solve a problem, you will feel weak and won't make you feel like you accomplished anything. It feels more like a hollowed victory where you will learn nothing from your experience. You might not even remember the gaming experience because the "help" have took all meaning away from you.
Today's time-straped gamers sadly use a guide to get the "hidden secrets" and the therapies out of the way or just focus on the multiplayer, scout players, and develop tactics to use against him when they meet later in the field. Then when the game is finished, it's either collecting dust or is sold as a credit for the next "big thing."
If you felt like someone's holding your hand through even one challenge, believe me, you will not feel like you beat the game at all. It more like the game truly beat you because you are not man enough to handle the challenge without a once of help and relied on "outside forces" to guide you through.
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Post by Luchaporn on Oct 25, 2012 23:53:40 GMT -5
Maybe you can tell someone to not watch Youtube, but who will listen? A lot of stuff falls on deaf ears and mainstream have cause gaming to become a mere shadow of its former self. Maybe I should just call Youtube a gamechanger alongside a gamebreaker because of the way it changes the whole gaming field into a overhyped game of "can you to this?" I sorry, but if you use a strategy guide to solve a problem, you will feel weak and won't make you feel like you accomplished anything. It feels more like a hollowed victory where you will learn nothing from your experience. You might not even remember the gaming experience because the "help" have took all meaning away from you. Today's time-straped gamers sadly use a guide to get the "hidden secrets" and the therapies out of the way or just focus on the multiplayer, scout players, and develop tactics to use against him when they meet later in the field. Then when the game is finished, it's either collecting dust or is sold as a credit for the next "big thing." If you felt like someone's holding your hand through even one challenge, believe me, you will not feel like you beat the game at all. It more like the game truly beat you because you are not man enough to handle the challenge without a once of help and relied on "outside forces" to guide you through.I don't say this often. But this is a really, really stupid post. How can you possibly know what someone else is thinking while playing a game? Your entire post assumes that you know exactly what I'm feeling or thinking. The bold part in particular is supremely arrogant. |
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Post by Phantom Cipher on Oct 26, 2012 1:28:05 GMT -5
You got to ask yourself: What are you playing games for? It okay to shift meanings on a daily basis, but the answer will describe who you are and it will describe the level of assistance that associates yourself with the classification.
There's no denying the fact that Youtube made a huge impact in gaming. And there no denying that too many people can't get through some part of a game without help from a source, online or offline. It is sad and shows that this generation of gamers are weaker than the last.
With life eating away at your gaming existence and the time you have to spend on the electronic illusion is increasing short, the only ways to finish a game is by either follow the guided line or let the game do it for you. You can't go wrong. But you will have a feeling of regret. You know you can do better, but you can't because of the shackles of living another man's reality.
With help, you might think you have fun, but you unknowly are following another man's path to happiness and his happiness might not fit your happiness. It will not connect. What will you learn from your experience? Reliance from help will make oneself weaker and more dependent on the source of help later in your gaming existence.
Youtube is a gamechanger and a gamebreaker that encourages people to see the many flaws of the gaming industry and with too many people already know what to expect in a game, it is getting harder to create an original game that no one saw or played before. It is getting on the gaming companies' nerves and it eating them up alive.
That fact alone have cause companies to become stagnated with little motivation and brought in an era of cut and paste gameplay that will not end soon. Youtube broke gaming to its absolute core and That is why I stand by my belief that Youtube is more of a threat to gaming than politicians ever been 15 years ago.
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Post by Luchaporn on Oct 26, 2012 1:50:28 GMT -5
I could literally just quote my last post but pick a new bold part.
You are a pretentious ass. Who is automatically assuming everyone who plays games is playing them for the same reason you do.
Does a strategy guide, cheat code or downloaded save make you feel cheated? Then don't use them. Don't try and tell me how I'm "weak", or how gamers who use strategy guides are "getting on the gaming companies nerves". I'm pretty god damned sure that the millions of dollars that people who do use these things put into the game industry more than makes up for having to design ways to make games appeal to both hardcore/skilled and casual/bad gamers.
It's insulting and condescending to believe that only gamers like you are "doing it right", and that everyone else is "following another man's path to happiness".
Seriously get off your high horse, and if you're going to be on it at least use some proper fucking grammar.
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Post by Guest on Oct 26, 2012 2:43:31 GMT -5
Guides kick ass. They remove so much of the trial and error and other forms of tedium in games.
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Post by Old Man Bob Holly BSP on Oct 26, 2012 3:25:54 GMT -5
I hate how games now seem to be much easier than they were back in the 8 bit days. It seems most modern games take a week or so to beat. I can remember when Super Mario III came out it took me at least a month to beat it. To me the more popular video games have become the easier the games have been made. Sure you will still sometimes get a game that is still hard as fuck but those are rare.
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Post by pyoobez on Oct 26, 2012 4:34:27 GMT -5
It's hurting games as much as word of mouth, magazines and the internet did.
When people started talking about games and magazines/websites started reviewing them honestly and gaining a good track record with the masses, the cream started to elevate to the top.
And honestly, I don't know many people that sit and watch all these vids except guides for stuff they play. I'm not saying they don't because obviously they do, but I don't think it's anywhere near the amount that already bought the game. Those who do watch people sit and play the game seem to be a small niche and a good bit of the time it's because they're a fan or friend of the player. I don't really follow LP, (outside of retsupurae) but there do seem to be a few people that are actually good at it.
But again, I think saying it's ruining a game is a bit too much. Moreso even than saying the IWC has ruined wrestling.
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Post by Phantom Cipher on Oct 26, 2012 7:58:13 GMT -5
OK. But to keep this topic from turning into a bitchfest, you gotta ask yourself this:
Do you get enjoyment from following the dotted line or do you get enjoyment from going the path yourself?
And as for "that" poster, lay off on the bitch pills okay. I don't assumed anyone plays one way when that path was already determined from the start. At the end of the day gaming is just another distraction from the inescapable real world.
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Post by Schemer on Oct 26, 2012 13:20:25 GMT -5
I'd have never seen the ending of Red Dead Redemption if I hadn't gone and watched it... But I hate commentary so it took me forever.
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Post by SciFi on Oct 26, 2012 23:02:30 GMT -5
Only games I bothered with getting a guide/cheatbook for were the Final Fantasy games.
Just because I want to do everything possible in the games and unlock every bit of story/cutscene. It's impossible without some sort of guide for me.
Final Fantasy 12's Brady Game Strategy Guide is almost as thick as a phonebook with the walkthrough and bestiary and weapons stats they put in it. Brady Games was pretty good about coaching you along without dumping spoilers right in your face.
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Post by Luchaporn on Oct 26, 2012 23:48:15 GMT -5
OK. But to keep this topic from turning into a bitchfest, you gotta ask yourself this: Do you get enjoyment from following the dotted line or do you get enjoyment from going the path yourself? And as for "that" poster, lay off on the bitch pills okay. I don't assumed anyone plays one way when that path was already determined from the start. At the end of the day gaming is just another distraction from the inescapable real world. I think(read hope) you're just making the mistake of assuming people go to those guides right from the beginning in a step by step map. Which is not the case. Sometimes people get stuck on the game, and as opposed to breaking things, and screaming in frustration until things resolve themselves, people choose to figure out how the hell to settle things. Key example-Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission. The specifics of getting through that mission with the entire squad and the entire crew alive is super specific. It would take years to figure it out without looking it up online. Even better example, ME3's Quarian/Geth peace treaty. Incredibly specific, spanning three games(or 2 games and Genesis for PS3). That thing would take ages to figure out with no guide. Are you really, seriously suggesting that accomplishing either of these things is somehow lessened because of a youtube video? Hell go beyond that you've constantly said things like "you may think you're happy...but you do not feel like you've done anything" or the wonderfuly mysogny of "you shouldn't go cheat just because you're not man enough to figure it out on your own". So yes, you did directly imply that you know what other people actually think or feel. |
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Post by Phantom Cipher on Oct 27, 2012 1:10:14 GMT -5
OK. But to keep this topic from turning into a bitchfest, you gotta ask yourself this: Do you get enjoyment from following the dotted line or do you get enjoyment from going the path yourself? And as for "that" poster, lay off on the bitch pills okay. I don't assumed anyone plays one way when that path was already determined from the start. At the end of the day gaming is just another distraction from the inescapable real world. I think(read hope) you're just making the mistake of assuming people go to those guides right from the beginning in a step by step map. Which is not the case. Sometimes people get stuck on the game, and as opposed to breaking things, and screaming in frustration until things resolve themselves, people choose to figure out how the hell to settle things. Key example-Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission. The specifics of getting through that mission with the entire squad and the entire crew alive is super specific. It would take years to figure it out without looking it up online. Even better example, ME3's Quarian/Geth peace treaty. Incredibly specific, spanning three games(or 2 games and Genesis for PS3). That thing would take ages to figure out with no guide. Are you really, seriously suggesting that accomplishing either of these things is somehow lessened because of a youtube video? Hell go beyond that you've constantly said things like "you may think you're happy...but you do not feel like you've done anything" or the wonderfuly mysogny of "you shouldn't go cheat just because you're not man enough to figure it out on your own". So yes, you did directly imply that you know what other people actually think or feel. Yes, I did made the mistake of thinking that the gamer read the guide from start to finish while playing the game. Also even though we got information about how to see the ending of __________ game all over the internet, it is possible to resist the temptation of not spoiling yourself by not looking at the wikis, Youtube, Game Faqs, and even typing the game on the search engine. During this entire topic I was in a confused misguided drunken rage, making a complete ass of myself trying to shove my ideas into other people's throats, while I use a corrupt version of the high and mighty Middle Ages rant. Then later I pissed you off in the process in a pent up rage, not even read a single line and forgetting what I was supposed to talk about in the first place. When I got back to my senses, I knew full well I messed up. Forgive me on that. Even in real life, everyone needs help in something. Same thing applies to games. Even I use them from time to time. Youtube is very powerful and can help you get out of tight situations, but I believe that relying on guides too much can ruin the experience and should only be use as a last resort. The examples you gave on Mass Effect can make even the most hardcore ME fan scream to the moon, and that is if you know what you are doing. In Super Mario 64, there is a star right at the start of a level and without a guide, you will never find it. I felt that some of the stuff in several games are too complex for their own good. And if you are a Youtube spoiler, that can go against you too, and not in a spoiler kind of way either. For example, in some competitive games like Tekken, Madden, and COD, you can watch your opponent and study their tactics, strategies, etc., thinking you know them like the back of your hand. Then the moment you challenge them to a match, the pressure start to build up and you might forget what to do at that exact moment. Even if you are able to attack them several times, they will come back and use the attacks in ways you never seen before, then as you try to deal with so much information at once, the match is over. So yes, we all can play games in any way we want within the limitation of the game itself. There just no denying that Youtube changed the landscape of gaming and gives us a chance to see games we either lost, never seen, or are yet to be seen right in the comfort of your own home. |
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Post by nPo Wolfpack noleafclover1980 on Oct 27, 2012 2:13:40 GMT -5
OK. But to keep this topic from turning into a bitchfest, you gotta ask yourself this: Do you get enjoyment from following the dotted line or do you get enjoyment from going the path yourself? And as for "that" poster, lay off on the bitch pills okay. I don't assumed anyone plays one way when that path was already determined from the start. At the end of the day gaming is just another distraction from the inescapable real world. I think(read hope) you're just making the mistake of assuming people go to those guides right from the beginning in a step by step map. Which is not the case. Sometimes people get stuck on the game, and as opposed to breaking things, and screaming in frustration until things resolve themselves, people choose to figure out how the hell to settle things. Key example-Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission. The specifics of getting through that mission with the entire squad and the entire crew alive is super specific. It would take years to figure it out without looking it up online. Even better example, ME3's Quarian/Geth peace treaty. Incredibly specific, spanning three games(or 2 games and Genesis for PS3). That thing would take ages to figure out with no guide. Are you really, seriously suggesting that accomplishing either of these things is somehow lessened because of a youtube video? Hell go beyond that you've constantly said things like "you may think you're happy...but you do not feel like you've done anything" or the wonderfuly mysogny of "you shouldn't go cheat just because you're not man enough to figure it out on your own". So yes, you did directly imply that you know what other people actually think or feel. I must be a super genius, because I got everyone alive out of the suicide mission in ME2 on my first try with no guide, and got the peace treaty in 3 my first playthrough with no guide. |
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Post by Guest on Oct 27, 2012 12:11:22 GMT -5
I don't see a problem with it. In a few occasions its been fun to see endings or videos of old games. Also it has helped me a few times with games.
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Post by Young Chris Jericho on Oct 27, 2012 14:39:36 GMT -5
It's not like anyone is forcing you to watch Youtube videos of a game you haven't played yet.
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Post by Luchaporn on Oct 27, 2012 15:32:35 GMT -5
I think(read hope) you're just making the mistake of assuming people go to those guides right from the beginning in a step by step map. Which is not the case. Sometimes people get stuck on the game, and as opposed to breaking things, and screaming in frustration until things resolve themselves, people choose to figure out how the hell to settle things. Key example-Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission. The specifics of getting through that mission with the entire squad and the entire crew alive is super specific. It would take years to figure it out without looking it up online. Even better example, ME3's Quarian/Geth peace treaty. Incredibly specific, spanning three games(or 2 games and Genesis for PS3). That thing would take ages to figure out with no guide. Are you really, seriously suggesting that accomplishing either of these things is somehow lessened because of a youtube video? Hell go beyond that you've constantly said things like "you may think you're happy...but you do not feel like you've done anything" or the wonderfuly mysogny of "you shouldn't go cheat just because you're not man enough to figure it out on your own". So yes, you did directly imply that you know what other people actually think or feel. I must be a super genius, because I got everyone alive out of the suicide mission in ME2 on my first try with no guide, and got the peace treaty in 3 my first playthrough with no guide. I lost Thane, Zaeed, Legion and Samara in ME2...that was umm...less than optimal. |
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Post by nPo Wolfpack noleafclover1980 on Oct 27, 2012 18:46:12 GMT -5
I must be a super genius, because I got everyone alive out of the suicide mission in ME2 on my first try with no guide, and got the peace treaty in 3 my first playthrough with no guide. I lost Thane, Zaeed, Legion and Samara in ME2...that was umm...less than optimal. I dd all the loyalty missions and when it came time to choose people for tasks I was like "Ok, tech expert? Legion" "Leader? Garrus" "I need a powerful biotic for the field? Samara" |
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Post by Phantom Cipher on Oct 28, 2012 19:46:12 GMT -5
Another good thing about Youtube is that it exposes game breaking bugs and glitches as soon as the game is released. The downside to this is it gives companies an excuse to rush the product to the market and force us to become glorified bug testers.
Also if your PS3 don't have an internet connection, the game can be potentially screwed with the bugs. Then your only hope is either wait for the "perfect" version to be released, go over a friend's house who got internet and download the updates, or bite the bullet and get an internet service.
The PC community been used to bug rushed products for decades and now we are feeling the pinch. Is it even possible to take the PS3 online using the wireless hotspot on your smartphone? If it is, then you might have some hope left for those who don't have DSL or broadband.
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